…because when life gives you comments, you should make commentade.
These are the slides for my Ignite presentation, which I gave yesterday. There is video, but I’m self-conscious about how I talked too fast, so I don’t think I’ll post it. I mostly did this at Ignite to force myself into a deadline so I’d get it done at all. This was smart, because re-reading and classifying almost 1,000 comments ended up being exponentially harder than just reading them the first time.
ETA: Because people are asking, and because credit where credit is most definitely due – these slides and all of the visualizations were put together by the fantastic Darius Kazemi. He’s an excellent coworker, and I’m not just saying that because he’s my partner. <3
(Also, these look a bit wonky because the slides are very large. Click through for bigger/clearer images.)
Trigger warning for rape and trolling
The second was whether people were passively forwarding an idea or making an observation as opposed to aggressively trying to generate a response. Essentially, did what they say seem to demand a reply or not? The vast majority of trolls can be classified as aggressive.
The third variable was whether or not they looked to be sharing information or whether they were just insulting the person they were replying to with personal attacks. So for example, a fully-classified “troll” comment would be disagreeing with me aggressively and insultingly.
For the purposes of my blog, I define trolls as people who aren’t adding anything to the conversation at hand. That can be giant blocks of text, like repeating “John Madden” over and over, or vicious personal attacks. Trolling is not people who are just disagreeing with me.
If you look at the traffic that each post has gotten it’s been increasing over time. After posting on January 30th, I had well over 400 comments just two days later on February 1st. More posts on the subject didn’t decrease comments – it increased them.
67% of all responses are actually responses to other commenters. People are way more likely to talk to each other than to me. However, most of the troll comments are made directly to me. Clearly, insulting, aggressive disagreement with the original poster isn’t necessary to drive the conversation.
That said, there were 102 comments that were categorized like troll comments – but I let them though moderation. It’s more likely for those to be in response to other people. So, I guess I’m more okay with people trolling each other than trolling me, especially if they’ve already commented once before.
This is a map of all of the trolls that I got. These are the IP addresses for all the comments that didn’t make it through the moderation queue. Unsurprisingly the US and Europe were the highest locations of activity, given that it’s broadly a conversation about video games and feminism.
So, we did some word visualizations on how people are using words in discussion versus how the trolls are using those same words. There is quite a bit of strong language coming up, so brace yourselves or close your eyes. Also, these come from IBM’s Many Eyes.
And yet when you look at the trolls that is basically all they’re saying, and they’re saying it overwhelmingly to me. All they’re contributing to the discussion is insults and perceived insults, specifically around being raped and the word “fat”. I thought that was a little off-topic.
So if you look at the word “fat” in comments, it does come up, but it has more concepts tied to it, whereas “fat” is wholly a derogatory term for a troll commenter. They’re very consistent about that, despite the fact that none of my posts address fat or body size.
The comments have been about 50/50 whether or not people agree or disagree with me. So you can put a less than neutral idea out on the Internet and people will just show up to debate you. I don’t think it’s possible to avoid disagreement, and allowing it adds to your traffic and comments.
And so I have found that simultaneously allowing dissent while denying trolls an audience has led to more engagement. I’ve had multiple commenters say that they are not commenting anymore and in 24 hours they are back and generating more comments for people to respond to.
—–
I realize that’s a cock-eyed way of looking at everything, and it’s certainly a more cynical p0int of view about my blog’s traffic and comments than I have most of the time. I’ve spent a lot of time lately feeling numb, though, and when I pull back from all this and try to put things into a larger context, I do think there are some lessons in here for those who actually want 10,000 - 20,000 people reading their blog on a given day, regardless of subject matter.
Also, as I’ve said before in odd corners – I’m never going to think communication is the bad choice. Letting people “talk back” to you via comments is something I would like to encourage in both personal and business websites, even if what you’re hearing from a commenter is negative. That just creates situations you can respond to, which will hopefully improve the commenter’s opinion of you. At the very least it will give you practice honing your content/message so it says what you intend it to say.
—-
BONUS!
I was planning on doing a name-and-shame of the idiots who harassed me on Facebook using their real accounts. However, it just makes me too sad. If you’ve messaged me with gross images or the word “RAPE” repeated over and over in the body of the message or whatever, please consider revisiting your Facebook privacy settings. For several of you, I can see where you live and work. And one of you in particular is who I’d like to talk to right now:
Kid, due to your disregard for the overlap between your online trolling and real life, I now know what your high school colors are. I know your hometown, your entire employment history and what community college you attended. I can also see your girlfriend’s profile and the fact that you two now live in her hometown, not yours. I can see the names and profiles of your parents, your brother, and your three sisters. I can see your phone number.
I get that when you’re recently 22, you might feel like nothing you do could ever have consequences. I suppose if I really wanted to demonstrate how wrong that feeling is I could get in touch with your family or girlfriend to let them see how you treat women you disagree with. However, you’re a stranger, you’re several states away, and even though we’re both apparently fans of How I Met Your Mother, I don’t really worry about you having an impact on my day-to-day life.
But kid, let me promise you right now: if you ever try and use the computer programming skills you got in community college to work in the video game industry, I will be expecting an apology from you about the harassing tweets and disgusting images. I can have a long memory when I choose to, and since you made such a compelling case for me to do so, I’m choosing to now. I hope you eventually grow up, but in the meantime your behavior shows you to be exactly what this industry doesn’t need. I’m not afraid of making that fact known should you attempt to enter it. You wanted my attention; you got it. Enjoy the consequences.
—–
And that is pretty much everything I can bring myself to say about This Dickwolves Shit. I’m clicking the “close comments after 2 weeks” box on the WordPress settings page, so one way or another, my inbox won’t be flooded with tired, repeating arguments anymore.
Hmm, I’m not sure what to think about this.
1) Could you identify the comments that you consider “trolling” among those that were posted on your side, so that we can better understand what is your definition of the word?
2) Your “bonus” section is deeply troubling. If that person you are describing posted/sent something that is even remotely illegal, report him to the authorities. I’m not sure I just like this whole “I know who you are and where you live, and I can blackball you in this industry” tone.
That is all.
2catmom: You’re so awesome. Actively trying to ruin a young man’s career and life because of words he said while young, angry & drunk and then gloating about it on the internet truly makes you amazing. I had dorm-mates like you in college. They were the ones who’d threaten to call the police while everyone else was partying. They were the ones who’d go and complain to the nearest authority when everyone else was having fun. They were pretty much the introverted, bookish wet-blankets nobody liked.
Kirbybits – threatening to destroy another young man’s career, classy move. Because you’ve never made a mistake or said anything inappropriate, ever. I can only hope that when you do, someone is there to threaten you and gloat about holding this thing over your head. Whatever admiration I might have had for you and this blog are gone. Yeah yeah, I know, I’m just a “troll” and what I say doesn’t matter but there it is…
I’m never buying any software you’ve had a hand in, and urging others to do the same. And you owe me a new keyboard – I puked all over mine after making the mistake of surfing to Bitches of Destiny.
I do not see holding someone accountable for their actions and asking for an apology for sending me triggering images and messages to be “ruining” someone.
Especially since, hey, that kind of behavior can ruin himself into a much worse situation further down the line.
Me, you need to realize that those introverted, bookish wet-blankets nobody liked weren’t trying to kill your fun for nothing. They were there for a reason – to learn – and you and your friends were making that hard for them.
Beyond that, you don’t seem the type to really sit down and think anyone’s situation beyond your own, so I understand why you’d be ultra-defensive about your actions.
I’ma say right here that I think kirbybits is a bit of a self-righteous windbag. I also didn’t agree with almost any of her points, and have a whole bunch of huge issues with current feminism research and viewpoints.
BUT…
I entirely support her in what she threatened this douche with. I don’t give a shit -how- much you disagree with someone, or how young you are (and really, 22 is young? Jesus. When -do- people have to start taking responsibility in your eyes). Sending -multiple- harassing images and tweets means you deserve zero sympathy, and if I were her, he wouldn’t have gotten the warning, or a possible way out with an apology.
Courtney, as much as I really disagree and have a strong loathing for your views (views! not you personally), I will try to pick up me’s tab and buy something you had a hand in. No one deserves that kind of shit. No matter how intense the argument.
I did not think that reading Leigh Alexander’s blog would lead me down a rabbit hole of this issue, but it also lead me here.
I’m sure the conversation has been ran four ways and back, so I just want to say after reading your blog posts (relating to this and otherwise), I’ve found another blogger to follow.
Thanks for being verbose, succinct, analytical, and above all else: willing to make a compelling arguement and stick by it!
Impressive work of one very disturbing incident (though indeed very interesting as analysis of parts of our culture) following your slides.
Stupid thing to say, but not all [male] gamers are aggressive misogynist sh**.
I was at the ignite talks, it was my first, actually.
I have to say, yours was one of the most focused and informative ignites given, and definitely one of the most interesting (The Willy Wonka one was good too
If anything, talking quickly is a _strength_ in an ignite. I really enjoyed your talk.
Do you plan on releasing any more analysis, or the raw data of your ‘subjective ratings’ (pro/con,passive/aggressive,share/insult)?
Well, the agreement with Many Eyes is that one’s data is publicly available, so all of the comments are online and open for anyone else to play with.
(Note: that doesn’t include IP addresses or anything related to a commenter’s identity, just the comments themselves.)
I love how you try to prove the veracity of something by merely saying ‘google it’. Fuck, unicorns are real, I saw them on the internet. If I write up a blog post saying I’m a millionaire, does it suddenly become true? Idiot.
I disagree in your interpretation – I was acknowledging that not everyone in the room would have heard the term before. The focus of my talk was not on the subject that generated the comments, but rather the comments themselves.
Positive trolling here – but you are just amazing. While I admit I may have been a tad agressive with some of the commenters (invisiblemoosenz and I seemed to make a pretty good tag-team), I can understand the anger expressed by so many people.
I found a link to your blog on a kiwi feminist blog, and am much indebted for it.
Your post here simply leaves me in awe.
One comment I have made many times on a variety of subjects – the initial offense often pales in comparison to the hatred and viciousness that comes from the respondents. That above anything else tells me how bad the problem is. Just how many people prove the point of systemic/indemic rape culture without ever realising it.
Your graphics show this brilliantly.
Gushing over.
Wait, KIWI feminist blog? Awesome. I’m from New Zealand too (hence the NZ at the end of my name, yo.)
What was the blog?
Interesting set of slides. DATA VISUALIZATION FTW. Thanks for putting these up.
Awesome post! One tiny quibble from my perspective. I haven’t had the chance to read all the comments yet but ctrl+F says no one’s mentioned it – when discussing the IP address origins, there is the sentence “Unsurprisingly the US and Europe were the highest locations of activity, given that it’s broadly a conversation about video games and feminism.” seems weird.
I mean, granted people speak English in other regions, but it seems to me that a much more reasonable explanation would be the language barrier than anything else – although I grant I know next to nothing about feminism in, for example, Japan.
Doesn’t really change a thing about the argument but it stuck out to me. Again, though, sorry if this came up and my search didn’t work right. This is absolutely rad.
You’re right, I should have been more specific – the language barrier *definitely* played into where the trolls were coming from.
I somewhat disagree. Eventhough there is a language barrier, English is quite a common language these days and the internet allows full international access. In alot of asian countries, street signs are coupled with the native language + english and with world trying to educate more of its population, english has become a norm for many countries.
The thing that I might note is probably that the exposure of the article simply didn’t reach the other countries.
would it be a better comparison to add the IP locations of all post to show the difference?
Third slide:
“It hit Gamer & Feminist blogs, then the Penny Arcade forums, then Reddit, then Metafilter”. You’re leaving out arguably the most important one with regards to the subject of your post/presentation; 4chan.
Good point, although I kind of justified it by the fact that /v/ is the video game area of 4chan. Also, I didn’t really want to take a lot of, “what’s 4chan?” questions from people afterward.
Thank you for speaking out, and for your grace and strength in dealing with such vileness. You are very much appreciated.
I’m not really adding anything new; I just wanted to say great job to you and Darius for putting this together. I can’t imagine how mentally and emotionally exhausting this would be for some people (including myself).
Hey, i loved this so much i actually reposted it on Tumblr with a little abstract, hope you don’t think i’m twisting your words (it’s more like for future reference). http://mrpsbrk.tumblr.com/post/3212622532
I actually also used your definition of Troll in a brief commentary in a podcast, but since that was in Portuguese i’m guessing it wouldn’t be useful to u.
As a sideline, i’d like to reinforce that Trolls are attention seekers, and that their behaviour most of the time doesn’t even seem to make sense if you forget this, if you forget this is basically ALL they’re after. Making sense, being connected to a shared reality, and other day-to-day concerns are minor to inexistent for the Troll.
Aaaaand… Just in case you don’t mind being complimented. Your blog rocks. Really love it. Kudos. Awesome. Me big new fan.
I just want to say, as a feminist and a gamer, how fascinating this entire thing has been for the last several weeks.
I know I disagree with you on several points, and if it were weeks ago and I knew you weren’t sick of it, I’d love to discuss them.
I’m truly sorry for the awful things people have said to you and about you. But mostly, thank you so much for your part in this debate.
Wow. The troll version of the “I hope” slide sums things up rather nicely. The whole thing sounds nauseating.
:/
It really does sum it up, doesn’t it.
Well, Ms. Stanton, I just wanted to say I think you’ve been admirably cool-headed throughout this ordeal, and you come off like a real class act. I can’t speak for all feminists, of course, but this particular feminist is really pleased with how you spoke up for women in general, and feminist internettish women in particular. Thank you.
It might be a little unfair that The Facebook Kid is the only one who faces any potential consequences, but presumably he was the only person in your field arrogant enough to harass you so openly.
This is at once depressing, and hopeful, excellent and awful. You have my admiration, and I hope for good things for you.
This just goes to show that the feminist bloggers I’ve encountered are much more principled than I am. If got the kind of hate and violence filled spam that you get AND it was attached to personal contact information? You can bet your sweet bippy I’d abuse the hell out of that. I absolutely would have forwarded their comments to family and friends, maybe even a buy a Tracfone to call them up personally and see if they wanted to discuss it face to face (so speak). And if they were careless enough to use a work email? Then their CEO’s contact information is only a short Google search away.
Terrific post, it makes a compelling and fascinating slideshow, and as another feminist blogger it’s heartening to see one’s impressions of the narrow and hostile focus of trolls vindicated, especially whenever one brings up rape culture. How did it go down with the audience?
The audience didn’t seem quite sure how to react, which I understand. I mean, it’s data! We love data! But it’s about, y’know, 100+ people telling me to get raped and die. That was kind of a mood-killer.
I think I’ve forgotten a little what it’s like not to be told by strangers to get raped every day? Because when the first troll word visualization came up, people gasped and someone was like, “oh my GOD,” under their breath.
Understatement of the year. I really admire how you’re handling this. I’ve never had to deal with such a flood (yet).
It sounds like you might have got a few people thinking about the underbelly of some of our social scripts there. Brava.
I made a post today that touches on a lot of what you have been talking about for the past week or so regarding PA, Courtney. If you are interested, check it out.
http://errantgame.blogspot.com/2011/02/into-fray.html
Oh, geez. I would have kept that thing about the 22-year-old kid to myself, honestly. I can see the narrative now:
“Angry woman threatens to ruin young man’s career, stalks him on Facebook.” <— even though that is NOT what happened, that's what they'll say.
So far, the only person I’ve seen putting that forth is you? But I’m pretty sure I can handle it; I doubt it’ll be worse than the last two weeks.
I wasn’t “putting that forth,” since like I said, I know that’s not what happened. I was telling you what’s I think is coming if the press or lawyers get wind of it. But if you want to ascribe it to me, hey, that’s fine.
Anyway, best of luck, and I’m sorry people said such nasty things to you.
I don’t want to ascribe it to you, I was just trying to let you know that I haven’t heard that from anyone else (yet). And thanks.
It speaks volumes about you that you didn’t publically flay the trolls and expose them to their friends, families, and mothers (although it would’ve been sweet sweet justice to have their Internet antics exposed.) That being said, BONUS! got 100% owned in every way possible, and I hope they read this post and realized that the shit you do on the Internet is no longer shrouded by anonymity anymore, and that if you want to troll someone and be a ruthless jackass you should think twice about it.
This is one of the most compelling and fascinating things I have read in a long long time. Really great work. Thanks for sharing.
I’m pleased that there were no troll posts from Texas, aside from Houston. I’m from Dallas, personally. =)
Houston sucks.
I already thought you were amazing for what you did (courage! games! feminism! writing chops! smarts!) but adding data to the mix … YOU ARE MY HERO. I will be pointing my students at this post as an example of how to use research and activism to support each other. Beautiful work.
Yea you might not want to tell people to google rape culture, it’s very existence is disputed on wikipedia, which then leads people to a writeup by Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers explaining how alot of the statistics you people rally behind are based on faulty or just false studies.
Like how that 1/4 get raped in their lifetime figure included anyone who had consensual sex then regretted it at a later date, or anyone who drank during a date. Also the majority in the study considered raped claimed they were not actually raped in the common sense.
You should probably just direct people to the shakesville propaganda page.
I figure people are smart enough to do their own research and educate themselves to whatever degree they choose on the subject. If someone wishes to treat Wikipedia or an antifeminist as the end point of their education, that’s their choice.
Also, I’m aware of the challenges to the “1 in 4″ statistic sometimes cited, which is why most educated anti-rape activists or organizations I’ve encountered recently use the more conservative “1 in 6″ statistic for women.
It’s not really necessary for there to be any rapes at all in a rape culture. A rape culture is just one in which rape is normalized (to some extent) and rape is at the end of a continuum of acceptable behavior for the empowered.
Attack Moderates
By forcing people in the political middle to polarize over issues over which they don’t feel polar, a desired end state is achieved – one in which the hyper-amplification of what was not very much to begin with creates a tone of hysteria amid daily cultural discourse.
What the hell does that have to do with this, or do you actually believe Kirby is forcibly polariazing people?
Kirby wasn’t, but the trolls were to get everyone riled up.
Yup. That is straight out of the troll’s playbook. And I think it has a lot in common with the more extreme approaches to being offended on both sides. It’s not just that you are offended, it’s that civilisation is coming down. This happens on both sides (I won’t name names) and yeah it’s a polarising tactic, although perhaps not intentionally so as it is driven by emotion and defensiveness. I haven’t seen that with Kirby though, I have appreciated what she has to say: it’s been thought-provoking.
There is no neutral in the rape culture.
Please make the comments the ‘kid’ you wrote of made and make them more public (say, in a PDF). I’d like to know who this person is, so I can remember never to hire or do business with them.
Perhaps she can do so privately, rather than a public call-out?
I doubt this will happen as I’m sure she wants to keep this completely contained until she’s forced to play her hand, but if I were in the video game business I’d be majorly concerned about working with such people, myself.
Brilliant!
It’s all very nice to take a stand against trolls like this, but is it really that much of a big deal? People encounter trolls every day, off and on line and they deal with it.
How many people include irrelevant stuff like feminism or videogames in their web pages so they get good google page rankings?
Maybe this is really is just extremely convenient PR for the blog, but IMO, troll is troll.
Given that I’m a feminist working in the video game industry, neither topic is irrelevant to my personal blog. I’m not trying to “take a stand” about trolls, I just analyzed the data provided.
I analyzed your analysis, and the data showed that you’re trolling the trolls in your own way. What does feminism mean to you?
So your “analysis” reveals the shocking and hitherto neglected fact that you’re rubber and the original poster is glue? What does “analysis” mean to you?
PS: I also talk too fast when I’m giving a talk – I think everybody does, so don’t feel too self-conscious.
Again, great analysis, and great presentation.
Wow, this was very instructive – awesome analysis! This is exactly the way to react to trolls – analyze and expose their behavior in clear, measurable terms… I see that previous commenters thought that your final address of the kid whose whole information you got through his carelessness was mean / vengeful / “just like them”, but since you do not give out any of his actual information, I find it a good move. In my understanding, trolls seek primarily to hurt feelings and to assert their own superiority, and you’ve shown both in your analysis and in that final address that in fact they prove themselves openly inferior (in terms of social interaction) and vulnerable (in terms of privacy). This of course gives you as the trolled-upon power that you could abuse, but you openly say that you will not make use of that power, so…
i did just find your blog – i’d been avoiding the internet in toto for months, because of PA’s SECOND comic [with their anti-appology]
and wow – you are seriously much more dedicated that i could be – just the THOUGHT of making those slides makes me want to sleep
thank you for your insightful commentary, and i’ll be around!
I think this is so important. The reason we argue so hotly is partly because people are wrong on the internet, but the real and practical benefit of those arguments is for the third party reading along. Even the most inane and misguided comment, if approved and left to the mercy of other commenters, might be what someone reading along has believed so far; but, they might be a little more open minded and take to heart what’s shown to be wrong about the idiotic comment.
Whether it’s bipartisan political discussions, evolutionists and creationists, or people against rape culture arguing with whatever those other people are on about, they aren’t arguing because they have the slightest hope of convincing the other side (or they probably shouldn’t). People are listening and trying to form their own opinions.
Cut out the trolls and let the dissenters speak. You’re right on.
I would like to add on here that I’ve had many ridiculous and frankly incorrect views altered by reading internet arguments. It sounds silly as hell, but I learned about white privilege and the like long before I approached the topic in any university class. Other people who are willing to provide personal wisdom on a public platform is an excellent and free source of information (not counting the cost of having internet service, that is).
I agree with this entirely, Snu. I’ve learned a lot from being on places like Inclusive geeks (Livejournal comm) and discussing with people there.
Bravo, and thanks for taking the time and energy to collect and present all this data. It’s a shame that there’s so much trollish behavior, bit encouraging to see a good amount of actual conversation! I had almost given up on the possibility of better discourse on the internet.
I’m much more interested in another element of this story. I doubt you’ll respond, and I have no right to ask it of you, but at least if I ask, someone else might answer.
I admit that I knew almost nothing of this controversy until it got mentioned in TAPPED, the American Prospect’s blog. While I have gamed once or twice, I’m no gamer, so having heard of Penny Arcade, I wasn’t its target audience. And I haven’t spent a TON of time on the controversy. But this analysis is fascinating and sadly unexpected, especially the fact that people actually read and respond to comments in interesting argument.
That said, I’m curious about something else. I have this concept of mini-celebrity. As a bridge player, certain bridge players are famous to me, yet nobody else has heard of them. Similar things happen in the less covered sports, in music, especially niche music, and probably in almost every walk of life.
From what I can tell, you were already a mini-celebrity in the gaming/gamer blogging world. But this episode, for better or worse, seems to have thrust you out of that and into more mainstream celebrity. In your estimation, how much of how tired and burnt out you feel do you think comes from the heinous energy required to deal with trolls, and how much comes from the difference between a small group that knows about you and can therefore respect your boundaries versus one that is, by its very nature, overwhelming?
Again, I have no right to ask this of you, but I’m interested in how we demarcate celebrity, and wonder if you have any insights. And, at some level, I can understand if your reaction is, “Back off. You don’t know me well enough to even ask that question.” It’s true. I don’t. If you don’t want to deal with the question, I apologize for asking it. It feels intrusive to ask, even as I’m interested in the answer.
Mostly, I do want to thank you for raising the issue, and, in the process, raising the profile of the problems of rape culture for me. One of the most important lessons that feminism and women’s studies classes taught me 25 years ago, when I was in college, is that the nature of privilege is not understanding that one has it. When I first read the comic, I didn’t immediately see what the fuss was about. You raised my consciousness, and you made me understand something I didn’t before. I thank you for that.
And I am sorry for all of the abuse you got for it. It always sounds funny when people say “I’m sorry” for things that they personally didn’t do. Please understand that I don’t mean, “Please forgive me.” I mean that I am filled with sorrow that people behaved that way.
But thank you for turning it into a useful and interesting presentation.
Hi Ron – I wasn’t any kind of known person or anything before this. I’ve gone to some conferences and done some networking, but I don’t think anyone in the industry would call me a “celebrity” on any level. Before all this, my web traffic was about 10-15 people per day…having that go overnight to thousands, and then tens of thousands, of people was not at all what I was expecting. I figured I might generate some discussion among developers who knew me already, but I really was writing the blog post regarding speaking at PAX East because I kept having to have that conversation in person. Blogging it and then saying, “oh hey just check my most recent blog post,” felt like it’d be faster, especially when at a large, loud event where an involved conversation is difficult to have without yelling.
I think if I was trying to become a professional writer, I might feel more enthused about all this? But this space is really just here for me to have a personal blog…I think I’d be much more okay with the attention if this was about a game I made instead of an opinion I voiced. So to whatever extent I’m a “mini-celebrity” now, I’m hoping that can be eclipsed in the near future with my work.
That said, I’m glad that you got something out all of this, and I’m glad you appreciated the data analysis. It helped me try and get a better sense of what actually happened. I felt really overwhelmed for a while, so having actual numbers to tell me that no, really, half the people commenting were to some degree in agreement with me, and that no, I wasn’t imagining it when I felt like the stuff in the moderation queue getting trashed was a whole different level of upsetting than the stuff getting approved…it’s helped me interpret the experience for myself.
I love this comment. Love, love, love it. It’s just so awesome, because… yes. I like when I can do this kind of interpreting thing to explain stuff in my own life, and nothing that has happened to me has been anywhere near this overwhelming. Information is just awesome.
(Adding nothing to the conversation but admiring noise…)
Very interesting analysis. I find it sad though that we have come to a point as a culture where being open to dissenting views can be seen as a contrarian and even ‘cock-eyed’ perspective. It certainly isn’t cynical! I find it is those who moderate away anyone who disagrees with them who are cynical. If you aren’t interested in real people’s actual viewpoints, and only intend to create a garden of agreement — that’s a cynical way to push your perspective. The non-cynical route would be to try to convince people with your words rather than with a push-button.
i haven’t read the original post + have only skimmed thru previous[+ linked] entries regarding rape culture. i have, however, been [vaguely] following the _Dickwolves_ implosion. 1 aspect of this post that trobles me is ur ending outlining the [not-so] veiled threat 2 the 22-yr-old fb troller “kid”: “You wanted my attention; you got it. Enjoy the consequences”. in my opinion [as a gal/gamer/creative/person] revenge isn’t helpful _or_ a type of true workable solution: it only perpetuates a type of latent+inferred violence [+ isn't that the point of the awfulness of rape culture itself?].
- mez
It’s not clear to me how “I’ll be expecting an apology,” or *paraphrase* “If you can’t convince me that your behavior has changed, I will tell people I know professionally about my previous negative interactions with you because that behavior would be a bad thing in our industry,” could be considered threats. I suppose that the latter is technically a threat in the sense of if…then, but it doesn’t even rise to the level of “I’m gonna tell your mother on you!” which she has explicitly declined to do.
I believe the message was actually: On the internet, you are not as anonymous as you think. Your actions there can have consequences in the real world. Therefore you may want to take at least minimal precautions so that you are not giving power to people who can use it in ways that could embarrass you or worse.
That seems like pretty good advice to me.
Revenge really is best eaten cold. Many, many years ago at college my roommate was bit by a frat’s dog. She reported it, and as a result the dog had to be quaranteened for rabies. The upshot – the dog’s owner stood outside our room and made death threats toward her. Graphic and disgusting death threats.
This was pre-internet days. So I tape recorded his comments even asking him if it was OK for me record. Admittedly he was fairly intoxicated, but he gave permission and recited his name and social security number for the recording.
Fast forward. Young man goes to law school. Young man takes the bar in particular state. Young man finds he has a problem because a tape and an affidavit has been submitted to appropriate authorities as evidence that he should not be admitted to the bar. First state rejects his application.
Rinse, repeat. He finally got certified in the third state where he passed the bar after spending thousands of dollars on his own lawyer.
Do I regret it. Not for a second. I think you should hold onto that information – trust me at some point he will do something that will make you go ‘oh no you don’t’ and then you’ll know its the right time to set it free. Like running for public office, like getting caught sexually assaulting someone. Trust me, it will happen and then you’ll have the last word.
As someone who hates the number of injustices in the world, that you did something to ensure that someone suffered the natural consequences of their actions is nothing short of awesome. I wish more people did things like this.
I also applaud you.
Yes, I agree: actions SHOULD have consequences. How you behave shows who you are. If you act like an ass, you will be treated like an ass. Just because you did it on the Internet does not get you off scot-free.
15 minutes of fame
Yes? And?
Maybe 15 minutes is the amount of time they spent trying to come up with a pithy comment?
Or how long their brain works at a time before they feel the need to shut down.
The statistics and analysis are each troves of win for a person, but I want to comment on how you’re handling this personally. I don’t mean to embarrass you or anything, but, knowing what you’ve been through and seeing how you’re handling these trolls is a win on a much different level.
I don’t know if these affect the gravity of my comments, but I’m a 24 year old young man, a lifelong gamer, and a hobbyist anthropologist of the internet culture. As all of these things, I want to thank you for your work and online demeanor.
I say forward the messages to his girlfriend. Fucker doesn’t deserve to have a woman trust him if that’s how he acts.
This is really vengeful though and not actually appropriate behavior so don’t really do it.
But it would totally be justice.
Man, I do not even care. They totally deserve it.
I was 22 once, a scant 4 years ago. I wouldn’t have wrote anything like that at 22. Screw him.
I agree, simply because if he thinks that’s a joke or in any way okay or justifiable, he may actually be a danger to her.
Nah, don’t send it to his girlfriend. Print it out and mail it to him at his home address. It’ll make helluvalot more impact on him than maybe reading it online.
Why does everyone assume it’s all men who are against kirbybits and all this crap.
If I got mailed by boyfriend’s messages, I would treat him to the best sex he’d ever have.
I realize that this argument is a lost cause, but it’s still really funny to see everyone on your side pretending like you won something.
The good thing about analytical data is that it removes any pretense of an ‘argument’ from discussion.
Though I find your reply very troubling for two reasons.
1) You’d reward your boyfriend for simultaneously endangering his future prospects while griefing another human being.
2) You’re actively not trying to have the best sex he’s ever had.
So either you’re a naive girl who thinks herself immune to what happens to 1 out of 6 of women, or a troll who just epic failed. Good luck to you, either way!
I don’t think anyone assumes that. I know I sure don’t.
And.. I hope that you’re just trolling with your remarks about your boyfriend. The alternative is just too sad to consider.
One thing: There are trolls on both sides. You may want to rerun the analysis focusing on people who are trolls but agree with you. The results might be interesting.
I can think of at least two different types of what I’d call, for lack of a better word, “PRO” troll posts. Comments like “You rock!” don’t add new information, invite response or inspire engagement. Then there’s something like “PA sucks!” which in this context would be PRO-AGRESSIVE-INSULTING. Seeing as how this kind of troll is generally looking to generate a strong negative reaction, I wouldn’t expect there to many (if any) of them on this blog. I would think they’d be over at the PA forums. But it’s true – the issue was not explicitly addressed. Still – given the kinds of words I’d expect to see in both kinds of PRO troll posts, I wouldn’t anticipate it changing the patterns that have been presented by much. While I admit that I’d be curious to see a more in-depth analysis (I’m a big fan of Nate Silver and 538) I’d have to disagree that this particular issue would be expected to yield interesting results.
The things that stuck out to me were:
The stuff C points out about blog traffic increasing with disagreement. Which, okay. That is interesting.
How many disagreeing trolls told C they hope she gets/ deserves to be raped. If an analysis of word patterns of trolls who agree with C show they told anyone “I hope you are/ you deserve to be raped” that would be very interesting indeed. Also, I’d be quite surprised.
Perhaps I am misreading, but I get the feeling you think C was damagingly biased or remiss in not revealing what negative things agreeing trolls say.
But since she’s looking at 1) readership 2) threatening statements made, with a focus on rape threats, I don’t see what analysis will show. They decrease readership? They threaten others like disagreeing trolls threaten Courtney?
On a related note, I saw this and thought of you. I hope it amuses!
argh whoops, I meant this one:
From about 5:00 onwards!
“Long time reader, first time commenter”
Thank you for being awesome!
*Not hitting on you* But I’d love to buy you a drink and give you a high five
But kid, let me promise you right now:
Win win win. So much win. Thank you. And what a way to use your power in the industry and your power of knowing this kid’s name for good. Very classy.
This is an amazing, epic post. Thanks for putting it together.
A very interesting analysis, and I can’t say I’m surprised. Anonymity on the internet has been treated as a free pass for people to do whatever they please (this lead to trolls) and while I have my own personal beliefs on the subject, personal attacks are distasteful and disrespectful (and honestly it will always confuse me as to why people do this to other people) but I applaud your resolve to not stooping to their sub-intelligence level and attacking them. What you can gain from this is holding your head high knowing you were the better human in the matter.
Just keep doing what you’re doing.
Wow, this is great stuff. Thanks for putting in the time to do this. One day we’ll be able to look back and say, “remember when the industry was like…?”
And then we’ll sigh and be thankful it’s no longer like this.
Hopefully.
Agreed.
Thank you for standing up.
This is amazing. I don’t really have anything more constructive to say only that this is excellent.
I said it before, but I am really glad you decided to take a stand. Thank you for letting us have discussion (and sometimes, arguments) in your space.